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Dual Core versus Amped up Single Core CPUs

 
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Kjartan
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 10:41 am GMT    Post subject: Dual Core versus Amped up Single Core CPUs Reply with quote

During gameplay recently I overheard someone saying that in order to play UT2k7 to its full potential one will need a "dual core" CPU. However, I had thought that the benefit of having a dual core simply lay in parallel processing which I thought was more beneficial for multitasking than for game-playing. My understanding was that for intensive game-playing having the best single core CPU that you could lay your hands on would be a better choice than having the best available dual core processor. Of course, numerous other factors affect your ability to crank up gaming effects (vid card, RAM (how many gigs, what speed it communicates with the motherboard with, etc.), motherboard, etc., etc.), but insofar as the CPU is concerned, which is the better choice: dual core or single core? (e.g. 2x2.8 GHz vs. 3.8 GHz single core) -- can anyone enlighten me on this?

Thanks!!!

Kjartan

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birch
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 11:23 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I guess it's going to depend on whether or not Epic / Atari writes UT2007 to take advantage of the dual or multi-thread processors. One of the current games that can do this is Quake ( I believe), but the UT series has yet to do so. In this day of dual cpu on a single core becoming main stream I think they'd want to do that.

If it is a single threaded game then dual won't get you any gain other than allowing other applications cpu cycles.
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It appears that ut2007 (UE3) will take advantage of dual-proccessors.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLC,GGLC:1969-53,GGLC:en&q=ue3+dual%2Dprocessor
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Kjartan
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 11:35 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting -- I wonder if this means that it would play better on a dual core than a single core if all other things were equal . . . What I mean is, if a program is written to be distributed on a set of processors in parallel, but it only has access to a single processor, would it run as well on that one processor even if that single processor had an equivalent processing capability to the set? On the one hand, it seems like if you write to take advantage of multiple processors, then you'll be sacrificing something for single processor machines. On the other hand, since all that would have to happen is for certain subgroups of the application to seek another node if it's there, but if it isn't, then they simply queue in line for the single processor, all of which "decision making" probably doesn't add too much time. So, it may simply be a better way to write the program, just slightly more complicated. *sigh* I just don't know enough about programming at this point . . . hopefully I'll be able to amend that over the next few years asskisser .


At any rate, THANKS for the info BIRCH!!! I appreciate it!

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Groove{hLk}
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 6:52 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you seen me talking about that not to long ago in the server..

From what i have been reading and watching about 2007 a dual core proc will benifit you the most , as the games physics will be well Unreal lol .. 2007 is going to be multithreaded for this purpose to split up the work , you might have seen phsyics cards for sale , but i really think that is somthing that has come and gone before its time. With the advent of dual core procsessor's you wont need a physics card. Just a dual core cpu to split the work load of the game. Really 4 core procsessors are on the horizon. Intell is working on a 4 core chip 2ghz x4 8 ghz total. But in anycase 2007 will be very scaleable so it will run even on a modest machine.

modest machine = 2.0 ghz 2gigs of ram and a 6800 series card or higher. if i remember right.
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Kjartan
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:54 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm - well, thanks Groove -- looks like I'll be a late comer to the multi-core phenomenon, I just built a new machine this last autumn and I probably won't build another for some time yet. Oh, well, by then I'll probably be able to pick up a 4x4 Ghz = 16 GHz machine or something! Cool (or, is that actually how it works?)

A question: When a machine is listed at, say for instance, 3.67 GHz and then when you look at core type and it says "dual core," does that mean that total performance for the core = 3.67 GHz or does that mean that each chip runs at 3.67 GHz for a total output of 7.34 GHz?

I'm tempted to think it's 2 for a total of 3.67 since otherwise the heatsink would have to get rid of more heat than they are currently able to (although it would run cooler than a single core 3.67).

Anyway, thanks for the info and see ya around!!

Good Gaming!

Kjartan

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Groove{hLk}
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:08 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes its two individual cores Smilie ..

i really want to build a new pc , but i am waiting on microsoft to get done with vista and dx10 .. when dx10 comes out we are all screwed as it WILL NOT be backwards compatible with dx9 games.. it will play them but with EMULATION BLEC! .. so in other words people who just spent top dollar on vid cards like 2x 7900GTX"s are guna be pretty pissed off when they cant play dx10 games they way they should be. I just hope 2007 doesnt use dx10

plus AMD is coming out with a new socket the K8L which will utilize DDR2
and Intell is coming out with the conroe which is supposed to be a monster.

im still running my old barton core xp3000+ and a 7800GS+
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Kjartan
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:14 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just wonder how long it'll take directX10 or "avalon" or whatever to get out of the basement -- while it's exciting to have the latest greatest installed on your system, be ready for bugs of all kinds! So, I guess I'll sit pretty with my ATi x850xt for the time being and my directX 9.0c -- I'll probably adopt a "wait and see" strategy to see how avalon works for everyone . . .

So, I guess it can't be backwards compatible if they want to move beyond some of the legacy architecture that would otherwise hold them back, but it won't be fun to play via "emulation."

You bring up a good point about whether 2k7 will be built for avalon or for dx9 . . . did a brief search and didn't turn up anything.

One last thing while we're on this -- if 2k7 is being built with Ageia's PhysX card in mind and the card is designed to be compatible with dx9, will the card also be compatible with avalon/dx10? I assume it will be, but if avalon is not backwards compatible, then the claim: "supporting Microsoft DirectX 9.0 Shader Model 2.0 or higher," might not apply to avalon -- I really don't know . . .

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Zoe
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:38 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read somewhere that UT2k7 will use directx 9c.

As to the physics processor, I'm not sure it even uses directx instructions. I think it's more of a math processor than a graphics enhancer. I really haven't read much about it though. I'm not going to be upgrading for awhile, so I figured there isn't much reason to fill my head with facts that'll be outdated by the time I need them.

I have loose plans to upgrade for UT2k7, but if the demo runs on my machine well enough I'll hold out as long as possible. I *think* I want Vista on my next computer, but I want to wait for the early adopters (beta testers Wink ) to use it first so I can see what the enhancements(problems) are with the new os.

My current specs are:
P4 3.06 @3.495 Max overclock
1gb Corsair VS ram underclocked, I may be able to tighten my timings a bit more. I won't add ram due to ddr being phased out.
BFG 6800oc @391/781 I still have room to overclock it higher.
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Groove{hLk}
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:42 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes the phsyx card will take the load off the cpu more than the video card. and you dont have to have a super duper pc to use one either, the only thing im going to upgrade for the time being is my cpu and mobo , currently im running an abit kw7 mobo paired with a AMD XP 3000+ Barton core 333fsb
a gig of samsung TCCD 3200 ddr , im sitting pretty at 2.5 ghz ( 2.1 stock ) fsb is at 385 mhz , what im looking at is an opteron 144 and socket 939 gigabyte mobo with agp only , not both agp and pcie ... those suck .. and at any rate the opty 144 will do 2.7 with ease on air . like with a zahlman or big typhoon cooling it .. they will do over 3.0 on water and have 1mb l2 cache .

and with my new Gainward 7800GS+ oc'd it right out of the box from 430/1300 to 550/1500!( it has the 7900GT chip ) but to ease confusion they call it a 7800 GS. im running 2004 on holy shit settings and it my fps never go below 70 usually its 85 solid , dm cypress will get it down to 70 , but i think thats just my cpu limiting me not my vid card.
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Kjartan
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 8:30 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re: "pcie ... those suck"

It seems like everything's moving in the direction of pcie though, you can still find a few motherboards with agp, but I *heard* that those were going the way of the dinosaur . . . hmm, just checked new egg, easy to find mbs with agp slots, are they making a "comeback?" About 9 months ago when I was building my present system it seemed hard as heck to find something with agp that wasn't too antiquated for my purposes.


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feldrewCo30
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:14 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

got me a EXGA 6800 GS CO AGP within hours after they were no longer on the market. It should hopefully be an adequate upgrade on my aging Dell (8200 circa 2002) when i finally get around to installing it (about 3 weeks from now, summer break). I think the cardmakers have pulled back, for the most part, from some of those monster, two-slot hogging vid cards. Getting a mobo w/ the dual 16x slots seems the way to go at this time if you're into SLi - wouldn't touch Crossfire w/ a stick. I don't think agp will make a comeback, it's just holding on a bit longer than expected imho.
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Groove{hLk}
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 9:14 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

well a 1/3 of the market is still made up of gp users so there is still a demand for agp products. But its only worth while to those who have high end agp cards. And i wasnt saying pcie sucks as a whole. just the motherboards who incorperate agp and pcie into the same board.
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