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Force model

 
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Zoe
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Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 363
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:20 pm GMT    Post subject: Force model Reply with quote

Here is a link posted by Flak Spray in another topic on how to force model. I can't write it any better, so here it is http://www.unreal.ie/node/224

I believe that these are the models that you can force:
Tamika
Sapphire
Enigma
Cathode
Rylisa
Ophelia
Zarina

Jakob
Gorge
Malcolm
Xan
Brock
Gaargod
Axon

When you set a default model, and play as that model you'll see everybody as the male or female that you selected. Gorge and Rylisa are probably the most popular models to force.

I'm not sure about the whole force model thing though. It's kind of boring seeing everybody look the same. I wouldn't do it at all if it weren't for the Matrix skin. I don't know what Epic was thinking when they included that one Rolling Eyes
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OLDMAN(Co30)
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Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 573
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:10 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

To bad theres not a Mod to force switch a skin, say Matrix force to whoever. He he set the server not to except a skin and puff you get to wear this one instead. O and make it a new pretty pink one also. Thumb Rolling Eyes Joker
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birch
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Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 311
Location: Canada, Eh !

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:01 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

My favorite excuses from others for using it over the years.
    - Ooooh it's so dark on here, I can't see anyone - I'm just being the same. (really lame)
    - #1 + why don't you use UTCOMP ? ( uugh .. not a instagib house )
    - Everyone else uses it here, - so I'm just doing the same. (really lame)
    - Really - I like the animations and sounds. ( uhhh right ... )
    - Oh I just came from another server where I was using it because (see #3)

Really it's the "I must win or I feel inadequate" people who stoop to using it. Looking for that advantage of not being so noticeable. Everyone knows that skin sucks but they still make the decision to play with it. Epic really screwed up with that skin.

I admire Buttfield's bravado, night in and night out with that bright yellow skin. Thumb
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Zoe
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Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 363
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:24 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

birch wrote:


I admire Buttfield's bravado, night in and night out with that bright yellow skin. Thumb


Except for that brief stint as a Nali war cow Very Happy I used that for a short while also, but nobody saw the skin, so there wasn't much point in it Crying or Very sad
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birch
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Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 311
Location: Canada, Eh !

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:41 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and Buttfield might actually use his blue and white "Leafs" skin ( Atvar's skin -> Red=Senators, Non-team=Senators, Blue=Maple Leafs ) this year because they might make the playoffs Wink

There has to be some hope for them, they got rid of Domi Clap
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tehswift(Co30)
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Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 100
Location: Nashville, TN

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:07 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I first started out I used the Matrix skin because I genuinely liked the movements of it. I learned real quick that a lot of people hated that skin so I switched to the Aurora skin..It's the same skin, silver instead of black, so if people just like the animation and sounds of that skin then why don't they switch to the aurora skin? I use forcemodel and red/blue color skins now. It does get a little drab seeing gorge and rylisa everywhere, but it's better than having to try and find people on dark maps because they refuse to use anything other than the matrix skin. Besides, Gorge and Rylisa are bigger targets so it makes using the lg a little easier Smilie
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Captain_Tea
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Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 227
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:29 pm GMT    Post subject: Thanks Reply with quote

Thanks Zoe, it seems to help. I am not very good yet and when I can't hardly see them guys with the matrix skin it can be frustrating, they might as well just be invisible on some of the maps. I can hardly hit anyone when I can see them let alone when they use that skin.
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Zoe
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Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 363
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:13 pm GMT    Post subject: Re: Thanks Reply with quote

Captain_Teabags wrote:
Thanks Zoe, it seems to help. I am not very good yet and when I can't hardly see them guys with the matrix skin it can be frustrating, they might as well just be invisible on some of the maps. I can hardly hit anyone when I can see them let alone when they use that skin.



Aye Captain Thumb
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Kjartan
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Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:58 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't "bright skins" just as effective for visibility (if not more so)?

I'm not using either bright skins or force model, though I can see the point of it -- if it's an advantage to wear a certain skin, sooner or later why won't everyone wear that skin? So, one may as well take countermeasures . . .

I'm not sure where I stand on the matrix skin issue . . . Not all things in life are equivalent, but then this is supposed to get us away from all that and create a situation where it's just skill. However, isn't one's innate skill potential in a given endeavor an arbitrary advantage in and of itself? Does skin selection count as part of one's skill set? I don't know, but if we pursue this too far might we not discover slight advantages and disadvantages to practically every skin . . . ?

For instance, wearing red actually influences victory slightly:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4657033


Also, male players may be slightly less aggressive against the female models on average.

What's more, in my own experience, it seems that players interact slightly differently with robot models vs. living models.

Etc., etc. There's no way to get rid of all these without forcing everyone (in the long run) into one model. There are certainly greater obvious advantages to wearing the matrix skin -- so far as I can tell (since it makes it harder to see on dark boards). But on boards such as altitude the matrix skin shows up nicely silhouetted against the sky and can be a disadvantage on some brighter boards. But, all this is really beside the point. I guess what I'm trying to say is, aren't there advantages and disadvantages to most things? Certainly, 80% probably fall somewhere in the middle, neither greatly advantaging nor disadvantaging, but I'm not certain that so long as differences -- of any sort whatsoever -- remain, this sort of thing can be eliminated (and the complete lack of any differences whatsoever = nothing; viz., if we even out every difference, as a matter of principle, sooner or later we'll be left with nothing). Even in chess, amongst good players white has a definite advantage because it takes the first move so playing to a draw is the goal when one has black . . . but then the players do take turns playing black and white -- so neither has the ultimate advantage so long as the number of games played is even. What if someone with mediocre chess skills became world chess champion because his breath was so foul and noxious no one could stand to sit across from him without it seriously handicapping their play? Perhaps some players look more intimidating than others, others have better poker faces, others appear weak and thereby lure us over into complacency before counterattacking strongly . . . etc. I guess my point is that it's not as easy as it first seems to draw a fine line distinguishing exactly what constitutes skill, strategy, and so on from arbitrary advantage the more closely one looks.

I may be playing a bit of a devil's advocate here, since I do understand (and share) the desire to "even the tables" and eliminate arbitrary advantages. But I'm not certain that playing with bright skins or force models is any different than choosing to play with the matrix skin insofar as either choice confers a definite advantage to the one employing it -- in fact, in death matches (vs. last man standing) something which confers an offensive advantage (such as bright skins or force modelling) is really a much greater advantage than something which confers a slight defensive advantage (such as the matrix skin). Moreover, the matrix skin is only an advantage so long as one uses shadows and darkness and distance to their advantage, in other words, one adapts their skill to suit the skin -- if one plays in the matrix skin exactly how they would were they not wearing it then it wouldn't be much of an advantage at all since it would be just as much of a disadvantage in bright, open-space areas as it would be an advantage in dark, shadowed spaces. On the other hand, force modelling or bright skinning forces an advantage without regard to skill or style of play -- and this seems closer to an arbitrary advantage.

Lastly, aren't arbitrary advantages (reflexes, the way one thinks, the time one can put into the game, etc.) part of everything? Even in trying to eliminate arbitrary advantages and disadvantages, instead of evening the tables, don't we just create inequities somewhere else? I'm not suggesting, "okay for the new uber-model, just choosing it confers 600 health, 300 armor and doubles your rate of fire." That sort of advantage would ruin the game, but I'm not at all certain this falls into that category of advantage (and I don't just mean degree of advantage, I mean species of advantage).

Anyway, I still haven't made my own mind up on the matter . . . what started out as a short comment got pretty long, so I'll cut my rambling short here! Very Happy


Joker [/i]
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Zoe
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:16 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not just an issue of a dark skin against a dark background though. The Matrix skin is so skinny and dark that it blends in against almost any pattern or texture background. All it takes is a small amount of mottling in the background to lose track of Matrix after a dodge. On many maps I have an easier time following the invisibility combo than following a Matrix skin. Of all the stock, and custom skins I've seen, Matrix is the worst by far, excluding some of the invisible (translucent) skins that are out there. Even in Altitude, Matrix may show up well against the sky, but on the interior(or partial interior) sections it's easy to lose because it's so spiky and skinny. It's has a disruptive pattern that works like a natural camoflage.
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Etc., etc. There's no way to get rid of all these without forcing everyone (in the long run) into one model. There are certainly greater obvious advantages to wearing the matrix skin -- so far as I can tell (since it makes it harder to see on dark boards). But on boards such as altitude the matrix skin shows up nicely silhouetted against the sky and can be a disadvantage on some brighter boards. But, all this is really beside the point. I guess what I'm trying to say is, aren't there advantages and disadvantages to most things? Certainly, 80% probably fall somewhere in the middle, neither greatly advantaging nor disadvantaging, but I'm not certain that so long as differences -- of any sort whatsoever -- remain, this sort of thing can be eliminated (and the complete lack of any differences whatsoever = nothing; viz., if we even out every difference, as a matter of principle, sooner or later we'll be left with nothing). Even in chess, amongst good players white has a definite advantage because it takes the first move so playing to a draw is the goal when one has black . . . but then the players do take turns playing black and white -- so neither has the ultimate advantage so long as the number of games played is even. What if someone with mediocre chess skills became world chess champion because his breath was so foul and noxious no one could stand to sit across from him without it seriously handicapping their play? Perhaps some players look more intimidating than others, others have better poker faces, others appear weak and thereby lure us over into complacency before counterattacking strongly . . . etc. I guess my point is that it's not as easy as it first seems to draw a fine line distinguishing exactly what constitutes skill, strategy, and so on from arbitrary advantage the more closely one looks.


Most of the examples given here are strategy based, which anyone can cultivate, or are psychological issues that need to be overcome. The fact that white moves before black in chess I don't necessarily consider an advantage. There's only a certain number of opening moves that are generally played (unless you're playing a rank amateur) and the first move tips you off to the play style he'll be going for. Plus, if I were in a competition with someone whose breath was that bad, I'd complain and refuse to play him. I doubt that I could be faulted, or be made to forfeit under those circumstances. That would be like having an opponent play loud rap music during the competition.

A more accurate example would be if we were playing chess and I used full sized sharply defined pieces and you used small cheap plastic pieces from a dollar store travel set. We'd be playing by the same rules, but you'd have an unnatural advantage because it would be much easier for me to overlook , or misidentify one of your pieces.

I'm not really for forced models or brightskins(except for competition use), but I'm not going to play a server full of Matrix' either. That skin should never have been included. At the very least one should be allowed to disable specific skins without having to delete all but 2 of them.

It really just boils down to using a built in exploit. That would be the same as if I could teleport to the opponents flag(in ctf) through a map glitch. That's included in the game, and everyone that knows about it can use it, but it's lame and the same as cheating. I shouldn't have to look and sound like a robot to stay on even footing with other players. There's a ton of skins, and I should be able to pick the one I want without being put at a disadvantge by doing so.
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ref13x
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Joined: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 111
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:56 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually got so fed up with everyone using it, that I started using it for a while. Then I decided that wasn't the correct way to go about things and just decided to force model. As some of you have mentioned...yes, it's not as fun seeing everyone being the same...but it beats being frustrated by people using the dark skin. There's always got to be some give and take apparently. Hopefully they don't do the same thing in UT2007 and I can go backed to "skinned mode"
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Hook2h8
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Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:01 am GMT    Post subject: I like this but Reply with quote

I know this is an old topic but. The only reason I don't like using force model is you don't know who your coming up against. We all pretty much use the same skins for every game, so if I am coming up on Tob's skin I know to watch out for shock, lg and flak balls, Elcom Rockets and Flak Mainly. Zoe, Shock and LG etc... With everyone as Gorge you just don't know. And with the LG zoom if I am coming up on Zoe, I very well could be dead before I even load up the mini Smilie
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ref13x
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Joined: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 111
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:41 am GMT    Post subject: Re: I like this but Reply with quote

Hook2h8 wrote:
, so if I am coming up on Tob's skin I know to watch out for shock, lg and flak balls, Elcom Rockets and Flak Mainly. Zoe, Shock and LG etc... With everyone as Gorge you just don't know. And with the LG zoom if I am coming up on Zoe, I very well could be dead before I even load up the mini Smilie


What do you watch out for against me? Razz I just spam equally on everyone. Doesn't matter who. I'll either get lucky or I won't..lol.
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